Podcast

Interview Highlights

Here are the questions and answers extracted from the podcast transcript:  

Question 1: If you could design a futuristic HR technology solution, and what problem or challenge would it address and how do you envision it transforming the HR landscape?

Answer: I think the existing HR technology solution offerings we have are yet to attain the desired pace of evolution, and HR services have been deemed primitive and mechanical compared to other functions in an organization.

These are neither intuitive nor employee-friendly compared to CRM and supply chain platforms for customers.

While CRM has entered into advanced stages of assimilating data around customer psyche and is able to induce customers to buy, supply chain technologies have matured to driving intuitive efficiencies.

These are small steps in the right direction towards applying qualitative machine learning in these spaces.

However, as an example, the best HR technology platforms still require keying in information even after a resume is uploaded or a LinkedIn profile imported.

Question 2: Is this a candidate experience that is desirable?

Answer: I don’t quite agree.

Machine learning has not matured to the extent that it can predict an employee’s psyche with a high degree of reliability and validity. Hence, AI in HR is currently limited to dashboarding performance or generating letters using ChatGPT, which feels mundane and mechanical.

Current platforms are typically designed by functional HR teams within an organization and the technical team of the technology partner.

The objectives are focused on reducing manual work primarily for functional HR teams.

Employee Experience (EX) is not within the scope of the design, rendering the technology platform perceived as either good or not good by employees and candidates based on their experiences.

The imperative for HR technology project teams today is to involve employees in the project stages during product development. Their experience should be a key criterion for developing a minimum viable product.

Having executed multiple implementations of HR technology platforms globally over the last 15 years, if given the opportunity, I would like to design a technology platform that captures the employee life cycle via their experiences.

Therefore, it is essential to design the technology platform based on their experience as the baseline.

My current vision for an HR technology platform is one that is intuitive and flexible, minimizing manual effort for the employee rather than the HR teams.

The platform should feature high-quality optical character resolution and voice command learning, allowing employees to execute transactions using voice commands, similar to the functionalities of Alexa in our day-to-day lives.

Users should be empowered to share their emotions, both personal and professional experiences, and recommendations on the platform through audio-visual integrations. Additionally, integrating social media handles can help read patterns of employee behaviour and convert them into value-based indicators for the organization.

Imagine the quantum and quality of human psyche that drives decision-making data this platform can generate. This could provide machine learning with data to build the next generation of intuitive artificial intelligence for HR.

That is my vision for the next generation and level of HR technology platform that I would like to see in the marketplace and, given the opportunity, implement as well.

Question 3: What are the essential qualities or skills that contribute to HR excellence, and how have you cultivated them throughout your career?

Answer: HR excellence is often proclaimed by organizations within their individual scope and limited horizons. However, it cannot merely be asserted by an organization; rather, it must be endorsed by the candidates, employees, and suppliers who experience the journey of human resources within that organization.

The core of HR excellence, from my perspective, must be grounded in three major foundational principles.

Firstly, it should be characterized by measurable outcomes that are intricately linked with business processes. These outcomes and processes should be evaluated by the audience they impact the most— the employees— rather than by HR, which may claim its processes are excellent. The HR department needs to be receptive to learning from outcomes and audience feedback to embark on a continuous improvement journey.

I have taken an unconventional approach to drive HR excellence, adopting what I term as VOE— the Voice of Employee— and ENPS, the Employee Net Promoter Score. These metrics serve as primary inputs to establish a culture of excellence, utilizing policies, practices, engagement, performance, and learning to achieve the goal of excellence.

In my practice, I prioritize maintaining high diversity and inclusivity in my teams. This includes assisting individuals without an HR background to take up roles and projects, fostering diversity of thought, approach, and change not only within my teams but also for the entire organization.

True HR excellence is institutionalized through best-in-class practices that are comparative in the marketplace, leveraged appropriately for employer branding. This achievement is optimized when organizations identify the best platforms to participate and showcase their practices— participating in HR-specific award categories, industry showcases, or pursuing certification programs in HR.

While many are familiar with ISO standards in IT, manufacturing, ESG, etc., not much is known about ISO standards in HR in India today. Despite my awareness of such standards in other domains, the potential for showcasing HR excellence through these ISO standards remains an untapped opportunity. These standards serve as true credentials of excellence and maturity, enabling organizations to present their best practices to the desired audience.

Question 4: What advice would you give to organizations that there’s who are just starting their journey towards fostering diversity, equity and inclusion, and what are some practical steps that they can take to create an inclusive workplace culture?

Answer: As I see it through my years, DNI, which is how we refer diversity and inclusivity today in organisations, is a function that rolls into human resources and thereby becomes a check in the box activity with goals that are measured by numbers and not outcomes.

Diversity and inclusivity in India are yet to be actualised in its full bloom, while we are as a nation more diverse than any other across the planet and thereby have the maximum potential to set the stage for the world to embrace.

But DNI at workplaces is often limited to only gender diversity or at the best showcased by sexual orientation.

While these are important, there is more to DNI than many know, since those are either not attractive enough for employers or is missed out because of lack of an inclusive mindset in the leadership DNA and their inability to measure the outcomes.

Comparatively, this causes imbalances in our society and thereby results in the administrative machinery of the nation to implement special measures for including them.

So, I’m referring to the reservations that we have across different statuses of society in our country.

But there is not one policy or statute that we could refer to that actually encourages employers to build ADEI state of mind.

Now, DNI is typically a state of mind that needs to be ingrained in the cultural DNA of individuals that is otherwise conditioned and nurtured with biases influenced by so many cultural differences based on hard coded biases in our societies for centuries.

An inclusive mindset at workplace requires an inclusive leadership team at the helm of the organization.

A leadership team that’s not diverse will not be able to establish an inclusive mindset.

The leadership team not only needs to be committed, but also measured on inclusivity by autonomous and external bodies.

They need to be open to place DNI as a priority as much as business results, and they need to walk the talk.

One of the reasons DEI is often an avoided subject is because, number one, lack of awareness of how organisations could contribute to DNA.

Inability to define and measure outcomes of DNA, inability to record comparatives of outcomes with or without DNA and comparatives as against competition, as against other geographies, as against other institutions that have programs supporting DNA.

So, we don’t have comparative mechanisms in our country right now through which we could compare whether ADNI program in an organization is good, bad or ugly.

I’ll give you an example here and that comes from the Google Maps that we all use often to navigate to a destination.

The map provides comparatives on time, effort and cost between different routes and allows us to apply our judgement on the route we wish to opt for while we are travelling.

Organizations are unable to draw comparatives of stimulated or actual results on how results would look with or without DNI.

This inability creates a fear of the unknown terrain and thereby restricts them to follow non-DEI strategies that may have been part of their legacy.

I believe organizations today need to rise and embrace DNI since it’s inevitable.

The UN Sustainable Development Goals for 20-30 emphasize on DNI more than any other ESG emphasizes on DNIBSI and ISO have designed global standards on DNI.

These are all here to stay involved.

If organizations do not embrace this and build on their maturity, while there is time, they will start losing out as these come into prominence and 360° organizational relationships such as investors, clients, employees and suppliers start demanding for these.

An organization that’s genuinely desirous of being branded as inclusive needs to make visible and continuous efforts to break any and every unconscious bias that may exist in employees by setting up independent committees, which in the DNI space are often referred to as Employee Resource Groups, that are empowered.

These groups need to be empowered with decision making rights.

DNI is a key sustainable development goal for 2030, as I said, and it is important that organizations make more effort towards driving the right environment that promotes DNI with a sense of belonging.

That would require a major overhauling of the legacy processes and practices built on unconscious biases that stand today.

Question 5: What are the key elements or factors that contribute to a compelling EVP and how do you communicate and reinforce these elements throughout the employee life cycle?

Answer: I’m sure you’d agree on this, Pulkit; not just our country, but across the globe, organizations are currently plagued with the high rate of attrition that prevails post the COVID era.

Personally, I believe not all of these high rates of attrition are contributed by the desire to have monetary gains or the desire to have exceptional monetary and non-monetary benefit packages.

But primarily on account of the fact that many organisations lack that employee value proposition, which I’m glad you bring up as a subject and a topic of our discussion today.

From my understanding, I think a compelling employee value proposition is one where decisions are based on the fundamental premise of employees.

First, many organisations today are content with basic employee benefits and often misuse minimum wage ceilings and basic benefit programs to focus on business outcomes only.

Since there is no dirt of cheap labour in our markets, the foundations of an effective employee value proposition go back to the same metrics that I initially spoke about the voice of employee and the Employee Net Promoter Score.

Leaders and HR teams today need to listen to what employees see value in.

Since not employees are similar, this is another space where DNI also kicks in and build on the diversity of the employee base to design value propositions and programs rather than deciding on behalf of the employee on what matters and what they should value.

Organizations and HR teams today define a standard benefit plan for employees, which is at the best segregated by employee grades.

For example, insurance programs. Employees at different grades and at different levels have different insurance coverages that are extended to them.

However, since there is no individual or two individuals who are alike, the opportunity that the HR teams fail to actualise is design the benefit programs and the value propositions tailor made to then employees need.

Let employees have the flexibility to decide the definition of what is value for them.

It is standardization that HR teams want to drive today to reduce administrative work and they impose A1 size fits all value proposition that often backfires causing increased attrition, low ENPS scores and employee dissatisfaction.

To cite an illustration of employee driven value proposition, let’s say not all employees see value in just compensation.

Some are driven by benefit programs, some by learning opportunities, some via the option to have additional insurance coverage, some via social causes that an organization is associated with and there are many more variants of what adds value for an employee.

Hence, my advice is to allow employees the flexibility to choose what matters to them during the transitional phases of their life for them to have tailor made value propositions that matter to them and build a sense of natural belonging towards the employer.

Question 6: What are your thoughts on leveraging generative AI and HR and how do you see it impacting the HR function in terms of efficiency, bias mitigation and employee experience?

Answer: I think that’s a very good topic to discuss on and there’s a lot of work that’s going on, which is remarkable in today’s continuously evolving dynamic technology spaces that are driving human resource capabilities across organizations.

Now, if I were to look at generative HIAI in the HR space, you see I have had the opportunity to work like I said, implementing multiple HR technology platforms, complete suites for that matter across the globe for my employers that I’ve worked for.

And some of those happen to be top notch HR automation and HR technology platforms today.

And I keep myself abreast with how those are evolving as technology dynamically continues to evolve.

There is a lot of space and room that still needs to be covered if I could say that as an overarching statement. That’s because as human psyche is something that is very difficult to interpret at a very short time frame.

It requires years, decades, maybe centuries of evolution for us to be able to decode how the human psyche is going to be behaving.

While marketing and sales functions across organisations have been able to make breakthroughs into this by developing intuitive tools and applications that look into understanding the psyche of the buyer, psyche of the prospective client and the existing customer, to be able to induce them into their marketplaces, follow them through with their preferences and then get them as a customer over a period of time.

The challenge remains to be retention and what drives the human behaviour and psyche to an extent that loyalty towards a branch shifts gears over a period of time to another, whether those are commercially driven aspects, whether those are service-related aspects, those are still being delved into as competition treats in in various fields and marketplaces today.

And human resources are no different.

In fact, organizations across industries are competing to get the right set of talent.

So, Pulkit, I think that’s a that’s a fantastic question given the fact that generative AI today is the need of the hour for organizations, for individuals and for the largest society as such.

This lot of progress that I have experienced has been made in multiple arenas where technology touches upon an organization.

So, the marketing and the sales team for that matter have been able to read the human psyche well to be able to bring out their best efforts translate into created customer acquisition, higher rate of client retention.

Even supply chain for that matter has been able to make progress by leaps and bounds by introducing a lot of AI driven technology into their platforms and turn around cycle times, turn around customer experience and again be very predictive in terms of deciphering the psyche of their customer base.

But human psyche in the HR space is a different ball game altogether.

It is not just purchase; it is not just delivery. It is not just logistics, but it is a mix of a bag of emotions, preferences, desires.

That all comes into play when we look at human resources per SE and try to build technology platforms that would have the capability to read all of these very complex emotions and translate them into capabilities that are generative and regenerative through machine learning.

This may take years, decades, even centuries for that matter in terms of understanding what matters to an employee, what drives his behaviour, what drives him on a day-to-day basis, and and and what are those key elements and levers that an organization can pull to drive the right employee behaviours?

However, I think we made some progress.

While there’s a lot to be done, when I look at the technology platforms that I have implemented over the years that are still names to reckon with in the marketplace for HR technology today, I see there is a long way to go.

While we’ve come a long way, we’ve covered a long distance as well.

Some examples that I’ll share with you, which drives a lot of employee angst when they work on current HR platforms is.

A lot of these platforms have been designed, like I said earlier, by the HR teams and the functional teams in HR with the intent to reduce their manual administrative work and look at automating processes merely, but not with the mindset of trying to figure out the psyche and the preferences and the experiences of the users, which is, let’s say, candidates and employees in this case.

I think there’s a need for evolving and there’s a need for it’s a complete transformation of how we look at HR technology projects.

I think the project team should not just have the functional consultants and the technical consultants but need to have the audience participate right from the design to the implementation phase where the testing of these technology tools should be signed off by the audience and the customers, not the functional teams.

Let’s say, for example, when I look at the current HR technology platforms, there are many who still require a lot of manual work and effort from candidates and employees.

If it be as simple as a transaction of applying leave, as simple as a transaction of updating my attendance or applying for a job as well.

I think there’s a lot that can be done by virtue of capturing the employee’s preference.

Now with OCR technology, with voice enabled technology, with visual technology and gaining prominence, there is a lot of information that is floating across various channels and platforms.

I think HR technology now needs to evolve to focus on that individual secure data from all possible channels of that individual.

Build a profile that is way beyond what a generic resume can convey.

And that helps an organization actually evolve to the next level of transformative understanding of what kind of talent, what kind of people they need to be working in their organizations through their social media handles.

Look at what matters to them, what do they care about?

How do we build those elements around that employee value proposition?

And, of course, how do we keep them engaged by virtue of looking at not just an 8-hour, 9-hour work schedule, but how do we make their experience wholesome per southeast with a lot of additional sources of information that is always surrounding these individuals.

So, technology in HR now needs to start transitioning from capabilities being automated to looking at studying individuals, reading individual preferences, converting that into machine learning and driving all of those elements into good intuitive judgements that can help the human resources teams really gauge and gather enough information around an individual and make that individual’s journey more and reaching more satisfying and more long term oriented for an organization.

[Inputs from the host: I think those last three words say it all, Enriching, long-term oriented and satisfying.]

Question 7: Is there any literature or any book that has shaped your HR leadership journey?

Answer: There are two literatures that I read many years ago, and I keep referring back to them, even to the date, for various situations and complex relationships that these literatures very aptly addressed.

One is The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni, and the other is How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

These are two books or two pieces of literature that has actually helped me shape up into my journey into the as an HR professional and a people leader.

And recent programs that I’ve gone through have helped me realize the potential that I’ve gathered by going through this literature has been of invaluable experience and value to me.

Those are some awesome Tool books.

Closing Note

As we conclude this episode with Indranil Sen, Co-Founder at Alter Ego Accelerators, the journey into reshaping HR landscapes and prioritizing employee well-being unfolds.

Now armed with insights into the evolving realm of HR technology, diversity, and inclusion, listeners, you are urged to turn these revelations into actionable strategies.

So, foster an employee-centric culture, embrace transformative HR technology, and champion diversity initiatives.

The challenge lies in applying these principles, paving the way for workplaces that not only adapt to change but lead with empathy, innovation, and inclusivity.

Stay tuned for more empowering discussions in our upcoming episodes.