Question 1: Chris, if you could travel back in time to give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be and why? How has that advice shaped your approach to your career and personal development?
Answer: Yeah, if I could go back in time and tell myself something, I would say, don’t be afraid. Fear can cause us to have challenges that are unnecessary. It’s energy that’s wasted. And what I would say is, be brave. And don’t just be brave but be brave together with others and lean into that.
And that’s the future.
What I’ve experienced since I’ve learned that, is that really you can achieve impossible things with others.
And there’s no shame in asking.
In fact, the people that ask and ask for help and partner with others and work with others they actually. It’s like the great bands, right? The Beatles, the U two. They just continue to create amazing music. And the same is true in our work, in our lives, whether in life or in leadership, it’s the same. So being brave together with others.
Question 2: Can you share a memorable moment or experience from your career journey that has significantly influenced your approach to leadership and innovation?
Answer: Years ago, I had a moment that really shaped my thinking. I had listened to and read “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey.” At the time, I carried a Sony Walkman—this will date me—and I had the cassette tape for The 7 Habits. This book was transformative, completely changing how I viewed leadership. Before I ever met Stephen Covey, he was already a mentor to me, and I felt a strong calling toward the kind of work he inspired.
When the opportunity arose to meet Stephen Covey, it was a life-changing experience. I remember looking him in the eyes and saying, “Thank you for your work. It’s made a big difference in my life and in the lives of many others.” He looked back at me and said, “We’ve…we’ve met before.” I responded, “I don’t think we’ve met, but I feel like I know you because I’ve listened to your book, The 7 Habits, so many times.” He just smiled and said, “Yes, we’ve met before.” It was an incredible connection that deepened my commitment to leadership, teaching, and inspiring people to think differently about their impact, innovation, and how they can do more and do better with their teams.
That moment set me on a path to pursue this work, but I wanted to approach it differently. I believed in the importance of experiencing the inner workings of companies, making changes, and shifting cultures from the inside. I started at Dell, which was a bit of a fixer-upper, and that journey led me to the boardroom with Michael Dell himself, where I helped transform the organization. From there, I moved to Disney and had some amazing experiences, and then to Apple, where I worked with great leaders like Tim Cook to guide them into the future.
Since then, I’ve written a book, Brave Together, and I’m excited about sharing the message that we can lead the future together.
Question 3: In your role as a speaker and thought leader, what topics or themes are you most passionate about sharing with others, and why is that so?
Answer: That’s a great question. I spend a lot of time thinking about how to build cultures that people love—both the people who work within the culture and those who experience it, like customers who engage with the products and services. What’s interesting is that when we look at the data, it shows that companies with the strongest brands also have the strongest cultures. The positive customer experience that makes people love a brand is directly correlated to employees loving their experience within those companies. In other words, the input equals the output.
Building cultures people love is a theme I frequently discuss. Another important topic is how to reimagine meetings. Many of us are now in a world of Zoom and hybrid work, and engagement has changed. Meetings can easily become exhausting, especially when they’re agenda-driven and monotonous. Generational shifts have led to people wanting something different—they want to feel energized and activated during meetings. Reimagining meetings is a conversation I often have.
Another key area is turning teams into brain trusts. This is something that companies like Pixar and Apple do. Great companies operate as brain trusts, and this approach is a vital part of shaping a culture that produces the most innovative products in the world. Lastly, supercharging culture with co-creation is a major focus. Co-creation goes beyond efficiency and effectiveness, representing a significant movement for the future. It’s about working together to create something greater, and that’s something I’m passionate about.
Question 4: In your experience, what role does HR leadership play in driving organizational change and fostering a culture of innovation and growth? And how do you leverage your influence to champion these initiatives within your organization?
Answer: I think HR traditionally focused on tasks like onboarding, recruiting talent, and handling performance management and compensation. These functions are important but are part of a broader ecosystem. Today, HR has the opportunity to step up and shape the direction of the organization rather than waiting for a seat at the table. Many business leaders are grappling with questions about AI, the future workforce, and the future of culture. We’re talking more about culture than ever before, and HR is uniquely positioned to help shape the answers to these questions.
To do this effectively, we need to ask the right questions and work collaboratively with leaders. Instead of viewing HR functionally, we should adopt a holistic approach and focus on the future. For example, we recently worked with an organization concerned about employee commitment and talent retention. They wanted to grow the company threefold and then sell it, but employees were disengaged because they didn’t see the goal as motivating.
We suggested they rethink their approach by focusing on culture. We encouraged them to define their intentions clearly and aim for true growth—where people want to be part of something special. Steve Jobs once said that his most important product was not the iPhone or iPod, but the culture.
The leader we worked with took this advice, focusing on building a culture that would attract top talent and create exceptional products. As a result, the company didn’t just meet its growth target; it exceeded it, achieving tenfold growth and going public. The improved culture led to better products and a more engaged workforce.
Culture is often overlooked, but it’s at the heart of a company. HR plays a central role in shaping and influencing this core element. With challenges like AI and rapid change, companies that prioritize culture and are willing to make sacrifices for the greater good—like Nvidia, which values principles and is willing to endure challenges—often achieve remarkable success.
At BraveCore, we regularly engage with leaders to help them build strength and capability into their organizations. The impact of fostering a strong culture is transformative, not just for companies but for the world.
Question 5: How do you actively seek input and feedback from your HR team members? And how does this input inform your decision making process and enhance your leadership effectiveness?
Answer: I believe this is hidden wisdom that has been around for a long time, even dating back to Socrates and the Socratic method, which harnesses the power of questions. Great leaders, like Ed Catmull, who co-founded Pixar and worked closely with Steve Jobs, exemplify this principle. We even started a podcast called Lead with a Question based on what we learned from Ed.
Ed Catmull discovered the power of questions when he was inundated with requests for answers. Despite his intelligence and expertise—he has a PhD and created technology used in special effects for movies like the early Star Wars films—he realized that simply providing answers wasn’t empowering his team. His wife encouraged him to attend a seven-day meditation retreat where he could only ask questions and listen. This experience profoundly changed him as a leader.
Leading with questions provides people with an anchor and helps them feel involved in finding their own solutions to challenges. This approach is incredibly powerful in leadership. In today’s world, where AI and Google can generate answers much faster than any individual, the real value lies in asking the right questions. This practice is far more impactful and empowering for leaders.
Question 6: Please tell us some examples of HR leaders or mentors who have had a significant impact on your leadership journey. And what lessons have you learned from their examples that you continue to apply in your HR leadership style?
Answer: I’ve had the privilege of working with some remarkable leaders over the years. Jeannette Dennis at Disney is one such leader. She exemplified what I’ve just described: she asked great questions and showed immense patience. This approach might seem counterintuitive to the performance and hustle culture prevalent today, but it’s incredibly effective. Great leaders take the time to recognize and inspire their team members, allowing them to grapple with questions and challenges collaboratively.
Another leader I worked with in a large organization would ask, when I presented a significant issue, “What would you do if you were in my shoes, for a day or a week?” He genuinely wanted to know my perspective. This invitation to co-create solutions was empowering. He would shape my ideas and guide me, but ultimately, I was able to implement the solution we developed together. I would never have arrived at a solution on my own without his guidance and empowerment.
More recently, at Apple, I encountered leaders who inspired me greatly. One standout example was a peer named Lucky, who, despite not being in a formal leadership position, exhibited leadership qualities through her use of the Socratic method. Her powerful questions challenged me to think differently and improve.
At VMware, I worked closely with Betsy Sutter, the Chief People Officer, who is a fantastic example of leading and inspiring people to excel. There are many great examples of impactful leadership in HR, and service is a key aspect of making a difference.
Angela Ahrendts, who led Apple’s retail operations and previously headed Burberry, is another exemplary leader. She introduced a “serve, don’t sell” philosophy to Apple’s retail stores, which transformed the customer experience. Under her leadership, Apple stores became renowned for offering an exceptional experience, attracting high foot traffic even as retail trends shifted. In the U.S., Apple stores welcome hundreds to thousands of people daily, and in places like China, stores can see up to 80,000 visitors in a day. Customers come not just for the products but for the joy and care they receive from staff, who make them feel valued and part of a unique experience.
Great leaders ensure that their people are the heroes of the story, and that’s what makes the difference.
Question 7: Talk to us about leadership challenge or setback that you encountered in your HR career and how did you overcome it to emerge as a stronger and more effective HR leader?
Answer: Yeah, that’s a good question. During my time at Apple, I had the chance to work with some exceptional leaders, many of whom had worked with Steve Jobs on significant projects, like launching the first iPhone. One particular VP received feedback about not collaborating well with his peers. I realized I needed to share this feedback with him and offer some coaching. I knew he was a headstrong individual and that delivering this feedback could be challenging. However, I felt it was a risk I had to take because part of HR’s role is to influence and help leaders improve.
When I shared the feedback, he didn’t take it well. He was offended and wouldn’t make eye contact with me or speak to me for weeks. It was an uncomfortable situation. I could have chosen to give up, especially since he was a key client. But instead, I decided to have a heart-to-heart conversation with him.
I called him and said, “I know you didn’t like the feedback I gave you. My intention wasn’t to offend you but to provide honest input to help you improve and grow. I’ve heard enough feedback to know it’s a real issue.” Initially, he wasn’t convinced, and we had a bit of a disagreement. However, he eventually understood that my intentions were genuine. He admitted that he might need to consider making some changes as a leader.
He then gave me feedback as well, suggesting that I should work on getting to know his team better. I agreed and thanked him for the input. After that heart-to-heart conversation, we collaborated effectively and did some great work together.
Sometimes being brave and stepping into challenging situations can feel daunting and may seem like a failure at first. I felt uncertain about my future at Apple for a while. However, with support from other HR partners and leaders who understood the situation, the VP eventually embraced the feedback. He became more open to collaboration and made it a key theme for his organization. The pressure was then on him to improve in that area.
Question 8: What do you believe are the most critical leadership competencies and skills that HR leaders will need to succeed in future? And how are you preparing yourself and your HR team to meet those demands and challenges head on?
Answer: It’s a great question, and there are many directions we could go with it. But if we’re looking at the core issue, it’s not just about the branches or leaves of the tree. A common challenge for HR leaders is getting stuck on a narrow focus when leaders emphasize execution or results. For instance, I was just talking to folks at Meta, a company that thought layoffs would be a great move because it was their “year of execution.” Now, HR leaders there are realizing that this approach didn’t achieve what they expected. Surprise, surprise—massive layoffs don’t help the culture. In fact, they’re a really poor decision. The company overhired, and now, after years of building teams, they’re slashing them, thinking it will improve the bottom line. It might, for a quarter or two, but the long-term damage to the culture can be irreparable, especially if there’s hubris in leadership.
Any company that believes execution is the answer to everything is delusional. This is simple data: go ask anyone on the street if they want to work for a company whose vision is just “execution.” No one will be inspired by that. It’s not a future-oriented approach—it’s just about cutting things out. Yes, we need to get things done, and we need to do them well, but the real opportunities lie in being co-creative. HR leaders who will lead in the future are those who see themselves as co-creators, working bravely with leaders to innovate.
Take General Electric, for example. They were a big-shot company not too long ago, but where are they now? They focused on slashing and cutting, and while the manufacturing business has changed, their culture isn’t what it could have been. In contrast, look at a company like Apple, which is intentional about hiring. They bring in talent slowly and thoughtfully, not just to get the best people but to avoid overhiring. HR can influence these decisions by keeping the focus on the North Star: providing the best products and experiences for both employees and customers. That will power the company far more than any short-term strategy like layoffs.
Being co-creative is a key skill for HR. It’s about challenging leaders to think differently and innovatively, not just sticking to the status quo. There are, of course, policies and integrity issues we must guard, but creativity in HR is about shaping the future. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. We know that you can’t cut your way to the future.
When I was at Dell, the company was in a similar situation to what Meta is experiencing now—constant layoffs and restructuring. Other companies, like Tesla, are going through this too. Market forces are unpredictable, but HR can help leaders think in terms of building a human, people-powered company. Imagine a perpetual motion machine—not in the traditional sense, but in the way that great company cultures function. They’re powered by people, with collaboration and connections that break down silos.
Even with the rise of AI, the question for leaders shouldn’t be, “How do we replace people with AI?” but rather, “How do we use AI to amplify the work we do?” AI should be an amplifier, not a replacement. The focus should be on co-creation, where teams are supercharged through collaboration. At Apple, for example, when developing AirPods, we had cross-functional teams—hardware, software, operations, retail, and design—all working together. This co-creative approach led to a consistent and successful product, much like how the consistent storytelling in “The Mandalorian” was a result of directors working together.
HR can facilitate this kind of future—one that is co-creative and collaborative, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Question 9: What role do HR leaders envision HR technology playing in shaping the future of work and leadership within HR functions? And how are they preparing themselves and their teams to leverage emerging technologies like AI, generative AI, to drive innovation and strategy impact?
Answer: I love this question because it opens up so many unknowns. It reminds me of a Northwestern professor who once said, “Everyone claims to be a futurist, but I consider myself a presentist—plus two months.” While that may sound extreme, especially since we have indicators of where things are trending, particularly in AI, it reflects how fast things are evolving. We’re seeing iterations emerge every day, every hour—each one not just slightly better, but sometimes ten or a hundred times better.
In HR technology, which supports the people side of the business, there are many static solutions that have been either developed in-house or purchased. These solutions work well for what they need to do, but there’s a lot of room for “what if” questions that tap into the imagination. Albert Einstein, one of the smartest people who ever lived, once said, “Imagination is more important than knowledge.” He called it the “preview of life’s coming attractions.” So, what are the coming attractions in HR technology?
We need to take a step back, zoom out, and ask ourselves: What are we trying to accomplish—not just now, but in the next 5, 10, or 35 years as it relates to our people? We want the best talent, we want to give them the best experience, create a culture they love, and that customers love—a culture powered by people who are passionate about it. To achieve this, we need to consider everything from compensation to development. Then we can ask: What technology will support this vision?
The problem in the past is that we’ve often asked these questions in reverse or haven’t asked them at all. We’ve simply identified the tools we needed—like compensation or payroll tools—without considering the bigger picture. For example, talent tracking is still an area where the market hasn’t fully delivered. But AI creates opportunities to redefine what these tools can be.
We need to step back and ask the larger questions that address bigger opportunities. As we do this, the right kind of technology can emerge—technology that is co-created with AI. Instead of just coding in a linear, discrete way, we can build something dynamic, almost like a living entity. If AI can produce technology that enables us to better understand our talent, to have insights into them—what could that look like?
Imagine technology that connects teams within a company, creates opportunities for them to ideate together, and build think tanks. What if it could help them create new things collaboratively? These are the kinds of questions that are far more interesting than simply asking if we got the payroll system right. While those foundational elements are essential, they are baseline now. The future lies in the higher-value co-creation space, which influences the impact of the brand and the experiences of both employees and customers.
Question 10: Any piece of literature, any book documentary that has shaped your leadership journey. I know you yourself, you know you have authored a book, right. But would love to know if you have any favorite book that you can share with us.
Answer: Yeah, I mean, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People is phenomenal. It really set the tone. Another great book is Creativity, Inc. by Ed Catmull. It reflects on his experience building Pixar’s culture and delves into the introspective aspects of creative culture. They even brought this approach to Disney to help transform its culture, and I was there for that. I love that book—it’s been transformative in my life.
Another important book for me is Brave Together, which we wrote to describe the future we’re living in and to provide guiding principles for it. We call them “metaprinciples” in the book. The first principle is “lead with the question,” which emphasizes curiosity and the power of imagination. There are other principles related to co-creation, a major trend in the future we’re experiencing. For example, one principle we discuss is “make others the mission and the hero’s sacrifice.” It’s a powerful way to live and lead. We also explore the importance of following your true north and the power of alignment with others.
These books have really mattered in my life. I was looking for something that would guide me into the future, and The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People and Creativity, Inc. have been very helpful. Brave Together, the book I co-wrote, is the book I’ve been searching for—it’s really awesome.