Podcast

Question 1: If HR had a magic wand, what workplace issue would it solve instantly?

Answer: Well, off the top of my mind, I can think of many workplace issues. But if you were to ask me to pinpoint one, I would emphasize the importance of connecting employees with the organization’s vision, mission, and purpose, enabling them to bring their best selves to work every day.

Now, if you ask any leader, they’ll likely affirm that it all boils down to having the right set of people. Essentially, every business problem can eventually be traced back to a people problem. Digging a bit deeper, it comes down to the need for competent individuals committed to furthering the organization’s purpose, taking complete ownership and understanding the impact of their work on the organization’s costs.

When you think about it, consider the various programs – RNR schemes, engagement initiatives, and performance management processes. What are they designed for? Essentially, they are crucial tools to enable employees to bring their A-game to work.

So, if I had a magic wand, in one stroke, I would address this particular challenge of ensuring that employees consistently bring their A-game to work. It resolves issues related to ownership.

This approach ensures that each employee is not only connected to the vision and purpose of the organization but also understands how their actions impact the organization’s purpose. It fosters a genuine connection, making them feel alive and engaged in their tasks. To illustrate, consider the story I once heard in a seminar: when JFK announced the mission to put a man on the moon, even the person shuttling astronauts to the training facility at NASA felt a sense of contribution to that monumental goal.

That’s the power of ensuring that individuals bring their A-game to work. It emphasizes the importance of punctuality – even a second late should not be acceptable. Reflecting on this, I can’t help but imagine the positive impact if I had such a wand; this is exactly what I’d love to accomplish.

Question 2: Describe a time when you stepped out of your comfort zone to take on a new opportunity or a role in HR and eventually how it contributed to your growth.

Answer: While there have been multiple instances when I switched within HR to more challenging roles that were completely outside my comfort zone, the particular instance I would like to discuss is when I decided to transition from my corporate experience to become an entrepreneur. I believe the learnings from that phase is incomparable to anything else.

So, if you want me to elaborate more from an HR standpoint, I have plenty of examples. I’ll leave it to you to decide which direction you would like me to take.

Host: I would pick anything that really captures how you took something from zero to one.

Manav Jain: After almost 15 years of spending time with corporates, you have worked with the best and the fastest-growing brands. You talk about Microsoft, you talk about PTM, which was like the darling of the entire startup ecosystem and working and leading HR roles there.

That was the time when I decided to take a plunge as an entrepreneur and that too as a tick-tick entrepreneur. Because over the last multiple years, be it working with the Murugappa group at Microsoft or at Paytm, I saw a lot of tools which are coming.

The whole buzzword around HR automation was becoming very popular. You know there are a lot of tools and platforms to enable to help you automate the entire set of HR processes were becoming, you know, they were coming in work now, and technology is 1 bit which really interests me a lot.

While I don’t know how to quote, I at least have a fairly good grasp of my domain in terms of putting those products together.

So, I observed, while they excelled in implementing certain features, none of them truly addressed the fundamental challenges and intricacies specific to the domain. This might be attributed to the fact that many product managers and coders had previously been end-users of HR automation platforms or hiring tools.

They were not from the domain.

I never saw a domain guy who’s actually designing the whole HR product and that’s where you could see a lot of those nuances which are missing.

So, something which really just to give an idea, let’s say, at that point – I’m talking about 2018 – I saw from a hiring standpoint. Now, I saw a lot while there were a lot of HR or recruitment tools or ATS platforms were there but most of them only ended up in increasing the recruiter’s work.

While they may be great for the hiring manager and kind of capturing the process feedback, etc., but they were just not easing recruiters. They were making actually recruiters’ lives more difficult.

And that was just for me to say, hey! Let me go and build a product now completely naive in terms of the world of technology, it was a difficult decision.

In fact, it was quite scary. But the determination was there.

It was pretty clear that if I can’t, if I don’t do it now, I’ll never do it.

So, that taking that writing onto the journey of really starting your boot start venture kind of figuring out like-minded people who can help you probably put together the product who can help, who can do the coding for you. You learn to put the right product wireframes, etc.

Since it’s a boot start venture, during all this time, you’re not getting paid for it. So, it really helps you to understand the fine nuances of running a business. We keep talking about that HR has to be a strategic partner, they should understand business.

I think this whole experience of running your own business is what actually makes you the closest strategic partner to business that you can think of.

You have to learn how do you really look at PNL, how do you look at resource utilization, you look at the intricacies of various functions without even doing it.

So, I was managing sales, also managing finances maybe except for coding everything else who’s we’re doing there, so managing operations, sales, finance, HR, all hats, you have to put, depending on the time of the day, you have to put different hats. That’s when you become the closest.

If I were to kind of draw the parallel back into a corporate life, that’s when you become the closest or have the deep, the closest understanding to what it means to be a strategic business partner to business.

Now, also the fact that you how do you really grow as a professional because you are riding literally a roller coaster of emotions. One day when let’s say you crack a big deal, it’s like you know we feel on top of the world for all you know next 10 days you feel like at the you know absolute depths of the ocean when nothing is moving.

So, it was an experience. It was an experience to be cherished in terms of probably if I were to kind of take an entrepreneurial journey.

Again, unfortunately, for me COVID wasn’t very kind especially for bootstrap startups when the sales cycles increase like anything and the cost of managing the tech team boom rank.

So, for a bootstrap startup that just started, I’ll just say COVID wasn’t very kind to us, but at least it taught me 20 different things or what not to do if I were to take up my journey again.

Coming back to corporate life after running my venture for four years, I knew exactly what needed to be done if we wanted to turn around the business. If there are certain areas which are not doing well, what are the areas to get into?

What are the areas you know; how can you really partner with business or drive it from sitting in the driver’s seat?

I would say those are some very close learnings, some deep learnings.

Second thing was, how do you really know when you have a minimal number of resources in your pocket?

How do you still keep the team engagement in morale high? How do you really build team bonding? How do your kind of, you know, get the team to be connected to the purpose with which you have started this organization?

How do you really do that?

So, I think these are some life lifetime lessons which this experience taught me, which will only help me as I’m kind of, you know, most of these things you kind of read in theory, you practice as a as a professional and then when you live these experiences it only kind of makes it that much more stronger.

Question 3: How has gamification (in the HR function) transformed the traditional way of running HR teams from your vantage point?

Answer: Let me first talk about what exactly gamification is, what I see or what I perceive gamification as.

This is, essentially, using those game techniques those when we actually play any games or integration of those game-like elements such as you know having those challenges, having those rewards, having those into your conventional HR processes to make them more interactive, more engaging.

That’s what gamification is all about.

I would say, it’s quite a creative way to boost employee engagement, to promote learning at work, to nurture a more enjoyable or a lively culture and you it is applicable to all processes.

You know we talk about recruitment and onboarding. We talk about employee training and development in this thing enhancing engagement even as something as boring as compliances. You know every aspect you can give me if I make it more lively make it more you know engaging.

Now if I look at gamification, honestly, it’s not rocket science to do that. It has some way finite underlying principles it just follows way straight underlying principles.

If we successfully implement this, we can incorporate gamification elements into all these HR processes. What principles are we discussing? It revolves around having clearly defined goals or objectives and breaking them into smaller milestones.

For instance, when considering recruitment, how can we integrate gamification? The initial focus is on increasing the top of the funnel and ensuring its relevance to profiles.

So, how can you incorporate gamification into employment schemes? Can I do that?

Absolutely.

I can set clear goals, define milestones, and offer rewards like badges to ensure a more relevant top of the funnel. The key is to have well-defined objectives. What exactly are you trying to achieve?

Break them down into smaller milestones and provide incentives not just for the end goal but also for these intermittent achievements. This will only encourage all the participants, all the employees who are participating in those processes to complete those tasks to get they get their badges, they get either point-based reward systems, you put leaderboards around that.

Additionally, we should incorporate elements of collaboration and competition in it.

This only adds excitement.

Like for example, if I’m playing a game, I’m okay with my performances. But the moment I see what does, let’s say how my next-door neighbor is performing, it automatically kind of spices up things for me. It means, hey, let me put in some more effort, can I beat this particular position? Can I maybe take my game a level above? So, incorporate those elements of collaboration and competition, okay?

Another crucial aspect is providing a sense of progression as participants advance through levels or tasks. This gives a feeling of accomplishment. Lastly, regular feedback is essential for all participants.

To illustrate, we recently incorporated gamification for our Infosec certification. We transformed the process, which typically involves going through boring info security policies and completing training, into an engaging activity. We designed a snakes and ladders game board for compliance. Each VP-level team, comprising the organization’s 13 leaders and their teams, moved on the board based on completing certain trainings and policies.

Individual achievements mattered, but the team had to collectively accomplish tasks for overall progress. Compliance is binary – either you are 100% compliant or not at all. Points were gained for timely completion and deducted for missed deadlines, creating a fun dynamic. The gamified approach turned a potentially dreary activity into an interesting one. We successfully completed the entire project in two weeks, a task that could have taken a month.

Question 5: From a gamification perspective, how do you think it can contribute to a better onboarding process for the new hires?

Answer: A well-structured onboarding process is crucial for an organization because it facilitates the new employee’s initial connection with the workplace. If implemented effectively, it accelerates the learning curve, enabling the individual to become productive much faster—something that typically takes three to six months.

The challenge is to condense the onboarding process to expedite the individual’s productivity. Building initial engagement is key.

Research reports, especially in the startup ecosystem, emphasize that a robust onboarding process significantly improves retention rates for new hires, sometimes reaching as high as 80 to 90%. This perspective drives my consideration of incorporating gamification elements into the onboarding process. At Local NAV, we’re in the process of designing such elements, although implementation is pending.

Our approach is to transform the onboarding process into a quest. Rather than presenting a checklist of various trainings, tasks, one-on-ones, manuals, and on-the-job learning sessions, we frame them as quests. Each quest represents a milestone, displayed on a leaderboard alongside other hires who joined in the last five to six months.

This method allows us to compare completion times and progress, fostering healthy competition and motivation among new hires.

A points or badges system is implemented to reward the completion of different levels, contributing to increased motivation. While we currently lack the budget for augmented reality tools, such resources could enhance the onboarding experience by providing virtual office tours and product demonstrations.

The onboarding space, when infused with gamification, becomes a powerful tool for building a strong connection with the organization. It communicates to new hires that the workplace is not just about tasks; it’s a dynamic and engaging environment. This approach can significantly contribute to the retention and engagement of new hires.

Question 6: In what ways do you think Gen Z is reshaping the traditional HR landscape?

Answer: Before delving into the topic, let me share an anecdote from early in my career.

Around the age of 26, I moved to Ankleshwar after our company acquired a smaller facility there. This marked my initiation into industrial relations, managing unions, and investor relations.

My role involved handling the acquisition integration post-merger. At that point, the realization hit me that my experience surpassed the age of some individuals I interacted with, highlighting the generational differences in the workplace.

Fast forward to 2006-2007, and the generational gap remains a significant challenge for HR managers. Navigating these differences becomes particularly tricky when addressing the diverse needs of each generation within various HR processes.

For instance, the younger generation, Gen Z, often seeks independence at work, eschewing constant supervision.

They value work that provides a sense of purpose, are tech-savvy, and desire instant gratification. Flexibility in work hours, a preference for hybrid workplaces, continuous feedback, and project-oriented performance evaluations are key preferences for this group.

On the other hand, the older generation, often classified as baby boomers, places importance on long-term financial and job stability, titles, retirement benefits, and adheres to a more hierarchical work structure. They are comfortable with office-based work, prefer a disciplined work schedule, and find solace in minimal feedback as long as it is not negative.

Balancing these varying needs is a constant challenge for HR managers in designing compensation, performance management, and reward recognition strategies. Implementing a cafeteria-style approach in compensation structures allows individuals to choose elements that suit their preferences.

Mentoring plays a crucial role in managing generational differences. The older generation needs guidance on understanding and handling Gen Z’s expectations and working styles.

Reverse mentoring, on the other hand, involves making Gen Z individuals aware of the realities of the corporate world and how to effectively contribute within that framework.

In essence, managing generational differences requires a thoughtful approach in designing processes that cater to the distinct needs of each generation.

It involves striking a balance in compensation strategies, providing mentoring on both sides, and fostering an environment where the strengths of each generation are leveraged for overall productivity.

Question 7: If I were to double down further on the Gen Zs pack and sort of marry that with building high performance teams. How should one approach building these high-performance teams while considering the unique characteristics and expectations of Gen. Z members in the workforce?

Answer: When assembling a high-performance team with members from various generations—baby boomers, millennials, Gen Z, and more—it is crucial for the team leader to be aware of the distinct needs and characteristics of each generation.

Sensitivity from the leader is key, as they play a significant role in ensuring the team stays aligned with its goals and objectives.

Setting clear goals is fundamental, employing methodologies like SMART (Specific, Measurable, Actionable, Time-bound) to define objectives and targets.

Whether it’s an ongoing activity or a project-focused team:

• Specifying time-bound goals is essential.
• Assigning roles to each team member is equally important.
• Emphasizing their individual strengths and clarifying how their role aligns with these strengths ensures that each member contributes value to the team.
• Encouraging open communication structures and acknowledging that conflicts are inevitable in high-performance teams are crucial.
• Establishing a framework for team leaders or external mentors to guide the team in navigating conflicts is essential.

While conflicts cannot be avoided, their effective management can be channeled in the right direction through clear roles, communication channels, and transparency within the team.

Recognizing the value each team member brings to the table and celebrating small milestones fosters a positive team environment.

This approach, coupled with the ability to guide the team through conflicts, forms the basis for managing a high-performance team successfully.

Question 8: How can HR leaders measure the impact of automation on the overall productivity and efficiency of HR processes?

Answer: I do have a bit of experience in that area. My perspective on HR automation is influenced by a framework that Dave Ulrich introduced. He’s often regarded as the father of modern HR. He proposed the A2 by 2 framework, categorizing HR roles based on people, processes, strategy, and operations.

The framework divides HR roles into four categories: administrative (focused on processes and operations), change agent, strategic partner, and employee champion. Automation primarily targets the administrative quadrant, aiming to reduce the substantial HR costs associated with routine tasks. The impact of HR process automation can be measured through various lenses:

You can look at:

• Efficiency: How do you really reduce the time and effort that you otherwise spent on doing routine tasks.
• Accuracy: Decreased error rates in repetitive tasks.
• Cost Savings: Shifting focus from manual transactions to strategic talent management.
• Transparency: Building greater transparency in HR operations.
• Employee Experience: Providing faster and more convenient access to HR services.
• Data-Driven Insights: Utilizing data for decision-making in areas like workforce planning and talent management.
• Security: Minimizing the risk of data breaches and unauthorized access to sensitive information.

These measurable areas showcase the improvements brought about by automation across the HR value chain.

But it’s important to emphasize that successful automation isn’t solely about the tool but also about effective change management. The adoption and implementation of automation tools need careful consideration and management to ensure that the intended benefits are realized.

Inputs from the Host: From our vantage point, this is how we look at it: we feel at HROne that it’s very critical that any tool or any platform that one gets to implement to be able to run HR automation, it has to be very simple and simplicity at the end of the day would drive adoption and that’s how one would really realize the ROI or whatever investments they have made. So very much in line with what our philosophy is on this side of the table.

Question 8: Any piece of literature, book or documentary that has influenced your leadership journey.

Answer: There’s a single book by Paulo Coelho, “The Alchemist,” which I read back in my college days. One quote from it, famously echoed by Shahrukh Khan, has stayed with me: “Never, never give up on your dreams. If you really want something, the entire universe conspires to help you achieve it.” You might recall Shahrukh Khan saying similar words in the movie “Om Shanti Om.” The essence is, if you passionately desire something, don’t let the fear of failure hinder you. In fact, fearing failure is the only way to render a dream impossible to achieve.

During my onboarding at Murugappa, the managing director shared a valuable perspective that has guided my professional journey. He emphasized that the goodness or badness of any decision is apparent only in hindsight. Therefore, the key is to decide and act swiftly. While you can contemplate a decision, its true nature becomes clear only after implementation.

So, act fast; even if a decision turns out to be wrong, it provides an opportunity for timely correction.

Closing Note

In navigating the complexities of HR, Manav Jain provides insightful perspectives that transcend traditional paradigms.

His emphasis on connecting employees to the organizational vision, purpose, and the significance of bringing their A-game underscores the essence of a thriving workplace. From venturing into entrepreneurship to exploring the transformative power of gamification, Manav’s journey reflects a commitment to innovation and continuous learning.

The integration of HR automation aligns with strategic frameworks, driving efficiency, accuracy, cost savings, and enhanced employee experiences. Manav’s leadership journey, influenced by literary wisdom and practical insights, serves as a beacon for those charting their course in the dynamic landscape of HR.